When Things Sound Similar
If you continue down this sentence, I m about to say something outrageous. For the most part, Audio components sound similar. Not the same, but Similar.
Take for example, the early Audio Research, Conrad Johnson and Dynanco products. They all sound similar: warm sweet midrange, slight lack of detail, rich, fat low end. You could say the same about Byrston and Mark Levinson.
Then you get a product that does not sound similar. These are few. The Ming Da MC 2A3 preamp is one of those products. It just does not sound like anything I heard before.
The Ming Da MC 2A3 is a series of paradoxes. For so many tubes, it does not sound tube like. For such a nice preamp, you cannot select inputs from the remote, and for the price/performance, well, its stupid cheap.
When I look at the preamp and see those tubes, I cannot imagine what it does - and that is, straight wire with gain. I am expecting a lush over rich, over ripe presentation. Instead I get a wonderful presentation of music, gobs of detail and a a slight, ever so slight warmth.
Another paradox is that it has no controversy. From the email we get from people we trust with good ears, it a unanimous vote. The Ming Da MC 2A3 is so out there, there are very few things in the less than 10K price range, that sound similar to it.
Vic Trola's audio blog to comment on comments and review equipment for The Pacific Valve & Electric Company. ** I am on staff here at Pacific Valve & Electric Company - take my comments for what they are worth. **
11 comments:
Hi Vic, Regarding the Ming Da 2A3 preamp.I came across a posting on Audiogon in the Amp & Preamp forums titled, Better Then C.A.T.
Reading through the respondes the Ming Da 2A3 preamp and Pacificvalve.us web site is mentioned. What caught my attention was a C.A.T.owner switched to the Ming Da preamp from the C.A.T. Ultimate.He went on to say the Ming Da is in another league compared to his C.A.T. Ultimate preamp.
I responded to the Better Then C.A.T. post with acouple of simple straight forward questions.However Audiogon did not allow my response.As follows....
Hi,I was just on Pacificvalve.us to have a look at the Ming Da 2A3 preamp.It's on sale now for $1230.00 from $1800.00....What is the going price of a C.A.T. Ultimate?
Bart,What or whom got you to concider the Ming Da preamp and amps over your C.A.T.Ultimate preamp and C.A.T. amps?
I have been a member of Audiogon since 2001. I 'm disapointed Audiogon censored my questions to another member....Is it so this Ming Da preamp selling for $1200.00 is in another league over the C.A.T. Ultimate including many other high price highly touted preamps? Hmmm!?
I never heard the CAT Ultimate - so I cannot comment on whether it is better or not.
For the money, and the tubes, you can't beat the price / performance.
Chaps...
I've been using the MC-2A3 for over 12 months and can say without doubt that it is quite superb and in a different league to most other tube pre-amps.
It's performace betters previous pre-ams I've used, both valve and solid-state, costing up to 7,500 dollars.
Then there's tube rolling ... bung in a set of NOS sylvania 6sn7w's, seimens e99cc, a Mullard EL34 and a pair of EML 2a3's and you've got the best sounding pre-amp around. YEs, I dare say that - I've heard tube amps considered the best and this MC 2a3 is astonishing - to my ears there's nothing as good. For the price it's quite unbelievable.
Oh, get some tube dampers too ... it suffers from microphony. Dampers fix that. Get one and be amazed. That's all ... Steve.
Hi Vic,
You are so right about the Ming DA 2A3 preamp. You actually have understated how good it is (when properly tubed). It replaced a CAT Ultimate MK2 ($6000) in my system and it was not a close call.
The guy who recommended it to me replaced a VTL 7.5 (13,000) and again no contest. I have convinced
at least 6 skeptical audiophiles to try it and they have since sold their megabuck preamps. My only nit to pick is that it seems hard on the 6SN7 output tubes (the two on the right side). It has chewed up some expensive NOS tubes in that position. I need a favor from you Vic. Please provide me with a schematic for this preamp so I can see the operating voltages at the 6SN7 output positions. I would greatly appreciate this and will continue to praise this product on the many high end audiophile sites on which I participate. I am happy to recommend you to all. I want you to keep bringing the Chinese products that outperform the revered names at a fraction of the cost. Thanks.
Bart
I read the threads above mine after posting mine. They are talking about some threads I have posted on Agon (small world thanks to the internet) regarding the comparison of the CAT Ult MK2 to the Ming DA 2A3. Friendlystranger, that was my thread you read. I am using a different tube set than Steve has mentioned but there are many roads to sonic nirvana and system matching will determine which tube set locks in for your system. It is a shame that manufacturers lean on agon to remove threads that compare their products unfavorably to products at a fraction of their cost (but that is what is going on). Steve,
I guess you are using the E99CC in the 6922 position? I'll have to investigate that. If you haven't heard the 6922PW (very hard to find and very expensive and often noisy), you may not have heard the what I consider to be the best sounding signal tube ever made. I also use the Mullard XF1 in the EL34 position. I previously used the XF2 Mullard. The XF1 has a fat base that will not fit into the decorative ring on the socket. I am a machinist so I turned the base down on a lathe to fit in the socket (HUGE IMPROVEMENT!!!!). As an alternative you can use the Phillips DD getter that sounds very close to the Mullard XF1 and absolutely slaughters all other Mullards (XF2, XF3, XF4). Steve, hopefully you will read this and get back to me on your tube rolling experiences (I have a huge collection of the best NOS around).
I am interested in what you have tried especially in the 2A3 and 6922 positions. Part of what makes this preamp so incredible is the tube families the designer used. There are so many excellent tubes in these families and this enables the user to fine ttune the sound to precisely suit his/her tastes. The tubeset I am using in this preamp cost more than the preamp. The only respectable sounding stock tube in this preamp is the Shuguang 2A3. Those of you that haven't rolled the stock tubes yet are in for a very pleasant surprise. Any users feel free to email me for tube recommendations: posbwp55@msn.com.
Vic help me out with that schematic please! Thanks much.
Bart
Hi All,
following the Ming Da 2a3 disscussion, I'd like to ask you a suggestion. I have a couple of expensive ECC33 Mullard that I'd like to use changing the two output 6sn7 (right side of the pre). Do you think I can risk to run-out or burn the 2 Mullard babies? I read that the maximun plate voltage I can use with these ECC33 is 250-300v and I don't know if it is compatible with the MingDa 2a3 pre.
Suggestions!?!?!
thanks a lot for help!!!
Vittorio - Italy
The Ming Da Euro version uses a mere 190V plate voltage on the 6SN7 and 220V on the 6922. The risk of burning out tubes is low but the way the filament supply works is real hard on tubes. Measure the filament and you will see some 7volts across the 6SN7 and 7.2V across each 6922.
I've just come across this blog again and seen the replies...
I posted about 9 months ago, have made many more changes, and have no doubt this amp is now one the best pre-amps it's possible to get.
I've re-capped throughout and re-wired here and there, plus after a great deal of testing I've found what are (in my opinion) the best NOS tubes to use...
Monoplate RCA 2a3 (ouch! but no surprises there...) 2x Sylvania 6sn7w (on the right) 1 x Tung-Sol 6sn7GT (on the left), 3 x Telefunken e88cc (not 6922's) - which I'd incorrectly typo'd as e99cc in my earlier post, plus a Telefunken "OO" getter El34 (the Mullard is great too). For re-capping use Mundorf Silver/Gold caps (more ouch!) plus Jensens in place of the electrolytics. Bypass the selector switch (so only one input is used - if you can live with just using one) and add 2 miniature quantum purifiers at the inputs - nearest to the volume pot pcb - it helps clean up any minor "grunge" in the signal. Change all rca's to WBT Next-gen Ag.
Bart - I agree with your post about the 6sn7's - something's not quite right there... :(
Anyone have a schematic? Any ideas?
"Anonymous" - if you have the tubes I've used maybe try them yourself.
Note - I have the UK market amp. I've heard it's a little different, but am not sure...?
Make the changes above and you'll have a truly magnificent pre-amp. It responds stagerringly well to top-quality components - ie the design is top-notch and totally up to what you do to it.
The parts will cost way more than the amp, but it really is well worth it!
Good luck.
Steve.
By the way, anyone seen this post:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?rprea&1219033518
Some really great info there from Johnsonwu.
Schematic anyone ... ?
Steve
Indeed I've had pretty good success modifying this preamp and I have posted my findings and details of the mod on audioasylum.
I'm also very glad that no less than 5 people have done most if not all the mods I have detailed and gotten very good results.
one thing that continues to puzzle me and this has happened to several owners already, the right channel 6SN7 gain stage tube deteriorates VERY quickly despite measuring a very sane current of no more than 3mA across the cathode resistor (3V / 1kohm)
and even with my filament voltage correction mod I am hearing owners (including myself before I sold it) complain that after a few months their prized NOS 6SN7 will develop a microphonic whistle and the tube will soon be microphonic and unusable.
The B+ is shared between the L and R tubes.
The filament (if you have applied the fix) is sane.
My only guess is that heat from the 2A3 just fries the 6SN7 on the right channel prematurely.
(BTW this wacky use of 2A3 as rectifier is definitely a worlds first)
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